Class Design Proposal Discussion

[FearItself]

This topic is for discussion of the design proposal in progress on this page:

http://twiki.avpmud.com/bin/view/Core/ClassList

Please note that the design proposal is in-progress, and may change at any time, sometimes multiple times in a day. Nothing is final at this time, and all feedback and ideas are welcome.

[kaedes]

Fear as far as buffs go it might not be a bad idea to add something to skinning. As far as stat boosts go while standing in the room (which basically mimics alien hiving) . Also considering the whole leader roll. Personally I don't think the players will choose that class because of the low p-base, which makes it semi useless. I mean its a great idea and if avp had the p-base it would be great but thats not really the case. Also remorts are a great idea but, The mud needs something to keep the attention of lvl 100 players. Yes we can play the other races but that will only take you so far. The evo system is a great idea but i think it should be added to all races. Also in this new era of avp can someone please do something about the synthetics. I mean if they are going to just be the crap race with nothing good then it should just be removed. For instance, they really shouldnt have mv, they shouldn't bleed or be egged. Also the incinerator is horrible, You should consider having it so there is a small chance that the incinerator catches the opponent on fire which will continue to burn him for a couple rounds. This of course is just an idea, It might be easier to just increase damage but it wouldn't be as cool. Also i know this has been thrown out a thousand times before, but could you consider creating an alien race that spits acid (for actual ranged damage). I mean nothing is really how its suppose to be anyways. I mean if marines can melee and actually hurt someone i think aliens should have a chance to have some kind of ranged. Though this does not stick to the original theme of AvP, It might give players a reason to log back on and play. As far as outpost goes aliens also need something to help them out with the barrier issue, they get sniped but can do nothing in return which is very annoying.

[FearItself]

There will be a separate 'talent' system which will allow for customizing your character like abilities now, but more focused on personal development rather than role. Marines may get 'Fitness', 'Tactics/Equipment', and 'Officer' talent tracks.

Alien evolution may be a part of that. I wouldn't give AESS as it is to other races (Preds have their skulls) but each race may get it's own flavor of growth.

But that is neither here nor there, let us keep this discussion strictly to Classes, which are a trade off of weapon/armor limitation in exchange for some new abilities.

Regarding Marines and melee, how the system is playable now is not representative of the new design plan in any way. Synthetics will probably be made identical to Humans, including healing to represent internal self-repair systems.

Outpost and sniping through through barriers is strictly a matter of outpost design - there is no requirement that the room immediately past the control points be blocked. We'll be designing other outposts, and not all will be like that.

[FearItself]

Notes from Unknown:

## I didn't get to revise, or finish the draft, but I gotta go.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'd like to toss in some of my ideas since we're doing something new:
Only thought about the Marines, sorry.

I am a firm believer in the concept that everyone can learn and utilize all abilities, but can never master them; hence classes. I had the feeling you where setting up the Marines to have key functions restricted by class that would work excellent in teamplay. The problem is, the MUD has a weak PBase and it creates to much of a strain on everything.

Why is the medic the only one who can heal? Why is the sniper the only one who can hide in a bush? (Assuming) why is the specialist the only one who can install defensive points? IMO it would be better if a race can at least utilize the lowest form of equipment and all abilities where a class amplifies those abilities to a greater use.


Now onto some Marine class ideas:

0) Rifleman [CORE]
1) Smartgunner [STRIKER]
2) Assaultman [STRIKER]
3) Marksman [STRIKER]
4) Combat Engineer [CONTROLLER]
5) Recon [CONTROLLER]
6) Field Operator [CONTROLLER]
7) Specialist [DEFENDER]
8) Technician [DEFENDER]
9) Medic [LEADER]
10) Squad Leader [LEADER]

=======================================================================
[1] Smartgunner [STRIKER]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Smartgun Redesign:
I do have one logical dislike here, the suppressive fire ability. It is not possible for a smartgun to do that! We fooled around one day and made a smartgun with AUTO-TARGETTING that fired off about 12 rounds every 2/10ths of a second with the lowest selection of damage; Place it bluntly -- It worked and felt like a smartgun, it was also pretty balanced.

PROS:
* It grinds down an opponent's HP consistantly over time.
* Prevents an opponent from hiding/installing since they're constantly being hammered.
CONS:
* Though by accident, auto-targetting was made realistic in that it scans each exit before adjusting to fire again. This means if the Marine panics running around, or the opponent sparatically moves then it will hinder the firing speed of the smartgun; it is almost required that the Marine stands still while shooting and that in itself is a serious downside.
* Taking down an opponent almost always eats up one drum of ammuniton; huge burden on the ammopack.
* Only good for taking out a single opponent; will loose a fight against multiple targets.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Nothing comes to mind about abilities for this class, just the resdesign of the weapon; sorry. To me the smartgunner has nothing special to offer the squad except to be the main damage output. The stand alone class which is nice to have around for its powerful attack. The class that should focus only on killing.

=========================================================================
[2] Assaultman [STRIKER]
* The assaultman is dedicated to eradicating bunkered positioned. It excels at both long and close range combat focusing on radial splash attacks along with flushing out hidden opposition. This class should not be capable of dealing with opponents single handedly; it would be designed to counter multiple opponents dealing moderate damage across a radius.

- Wetshot Ability
- M5 Rocket Propelled Grenade Launcher
- Satchel Charge
- Advanced Grenades

=========================================================================
[3] Marksman [STRIKER]
* The marksman is dedicated as the point spotter of the squad, taking down specific threats. The "Sniper" would be broken down into two classes to add more versatility; the Marksman focuses more on the combat aspect, while Recon focuses more on the stealth and scouting end.

- CalledShot Ability
* % chance to inflict bonus afflictions to shots.
- Aim Ability
* Charged skill; Marksman aims for the chest of the opponent causing vital damage if successful. Maxing the charge grants a devastating headshot.
- Designate Ability
* Points out a target to the squad, weakening the target's armor.
- Accuracy Ability
- Can adjust sentry guns, but not install them.

Group Bonus:
- Increases the damage and coordination of the group.
- Receives a large coordination boost to itself if a Recon is grouped.

=========================================================================
[4] Combat Engineer [CONTROLLER]
* The CE is dedicated to setting up defensive positions & demolitions on the field as well as immediate offensive breeching against opposition.
* This class is not meant for a foward combat role. *

- Weld Ability
* Can only be used on a closed door, spawns a destroyable object which restricts the open CMD.
- Blockade Ability
* Spawns a destroyable barricade on both sides of an exit; both sharing the same durability. This barricade does not prevent movement, but hinders it causing movement lag. A large object is needed to blockade an exit; they would need to be added to zones.
- Bonus to destroying objects.
- Low quality installation of mechanical defenses.
- Mines/Traps
- Satchel Charges
- Advanced Grenades

=========================================================================
[5] Recon [CONTROLLER]
* The Recon is dedicated to gathering intelligence and infiltration and can fill in for the Marksman.

- Advanced Motion Tracking
- High quality installation of motion sensors, alarms, etc.
- Scouting Abilities, such as getting a radial view of every PC in an outdoor zone, etc.
- Lower quality Marksman abilities.

Group Bonus:
- Increases the coordination of the group.
- Can direct the group to utilize more stealth options.

=========================================================================
[6] Field Operator [CONTROLLER]
- Air Support
- Artillery

=========================================================================
[7] Specialist [DEFENSE]
- Group Tank
- Buffs the defenses of a squad.
- Installs mechanized defenses.

=========================================================================
[8] Technician [DEFENSE]
- Group Tank
- Buffs the groups combat abilities.
- Temporarily upgrades group weaponry.

=========================================================================
[9] Medic [CONTROLLER]
- Group healer.

=========================================================================
[10] Squad Leader [CONTROLLER]
- Group buffer

-- Unknown, I'll think more in it when I have time; feel free to jack anything you like.

[bravenewnerd]

First, thanks Fear for trying to add some new life to the MUD. I've only been playing a little while but it's great to see the AvP world evolving around me. I only looked at the pred side of things because that's really all I play.

I already don't like the look of this. It's a common argument amongst the players, and one that no one ever whens, but it looks to me like predators are on their way to getting kicked in the teeth again. I suppose it's because you are still in a sort of alpha phase with these new class mods so I won't harp on that too much, I would just like to remind you that a majority of your players, at least in my experience, are predators and many of them already feel like you are hanging us out to dry. I was also wondering why predators get no group bonuses? That's not meant to be read as sarcastic, I'm truly curious.

Thanks for listening and thanks again for doing this and for allowing us to talk about it.

-BNN

[FearItself]

I already don't like the look of this. It's a common argument amongst the players, and one that no one ever whens, but it looks to me like predators are on their way to getting kicked in the teeth again.

And you are basing this opinion on what, exactly?

Im asking for people to provide ideas. I can't come up with everything on my own, and I need people's help. Predators have very little because, frankly, I don't know how they are in the game and am not familiar with what players want/link. If you want to see more depth in the predators, then it is up to you, the players, to help. Hating on something when it is incomplete is counterproductive.

Of course, it's easier for people to just bitch and moan than to provide anything constructive.

Predators don't get group benefits because we're giving them other things instead that the other races won't get. Each race will hopefully have one or two special features unique to their race.

[bravenewnerd]

I already don't like the look of this. It's a common argument amongst the players, and one that no one ever whens, but it looks to me like predators are on their way to getting kicked in the teeth again.

And you are basing this opinion on what, exactly?

As to the argument I mentioned, I've seen it on several occasions but I don't think that's what your question was about.As to my opinion that Preds are getting nerfed, that was based on false logic. Looking over the class list I see that I jumped to conclusions, apologies Fear. I've decided to try and counter balance my bitching before with something a little more constructive.

I recently re-watched the Predator movie and I noticed something. The Predator has the ability to cause not only physical but also massive psychological damage to it's prey. I think it would be cool to see something like this in game, for a single class or maybe as a racial bonus. Maybe something that forces your opponent to flee without him/her knowing in which direction but while allowing the predator to know. Maybe just a stat bonus.

I also think it would be cool for the predators to have some sort of passive sensors. Something that would allow them to see opponents. Kind of like the multi-filter spectral hunting mask but without causing an attack. I also agree with Kaedes on adding something to skinning. It's cool but something that costs skull points should be more functional.

I hope this has helped

-BNN

[FearItself]

I recently re-watched the Predator movie and I noticed something. The Predator has the ability to cause not only physical but also massive psychological damage to it's prey. I think it would be cool to see something like this in game, for a single class or maybe as a racial bonus. Maybe something that forces your opponent to flee without him/her knowing in which direction but while allowing the predator to know. Maybe just a stat bonus.

Thats some good feedback, the kind I've been looking for, thanks!

[Zargon]

Just 1 thought. MArkmen should have a passivle ability called "Controlled Breathing" Everyone knows Snipers going prone is just the 1 step to improved targeting. The second step which is even more important is controlling your breathing so that you aim correctly where you want to shoot. I think this would be a very nice passive ability for a "TRUE Marksmen"

[Zargon]

Furthermore, Predators could have a ability called "Decapitation" It would put the Predator in a state of mind of extreme focus for battle. It would give the Predator a % chance to Decapitate there opponent on their first successful hit. This skill would also have a cool down.